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Oak Hills church (Max Lucado) changes name, adds instrument

Two items: (1) newspaper article, (2) article by Phil Sanders on the change.

---begin from SAEN website

September 6, 2003 Page 7B -- San Antonio Express-News -- Religion & Spirituality

Oak Hills drops 'Church of Christ'

Oak Hills Church minister says name change doesn't mean core values will.

Lisa Harrison Rivas
EXPRESS-NEWS STAFF WRITER

Max Lucado hopes renaming his church, opening new campuses and adding musical instruments to the worship service will help bring more people to Christ.

Oak Hills Church of Christ is now Oak Hills Church, and although the name has changed, Lucado said the church's core values will not.

"When it comes to strategy, when it comes to approach, we want to do whatever seems most effective at the time," he said Friday. "That's what these initiatives are: changes of strategy, not changes of doctrine or core values."

Changes include making Oak Hills a multisite church, with campuses throughout San Antonio.

"A decade from now, what we'll remember most is the multisite initiative," Lucado said. "This effort will impact thee city on the greatest scale."

Vic King, Minister of missions and outreach, said the staff doesn't expect a lot of members to leave over the changes.

"It's the sign that we are changing," King said. "We are changing to a sign that more accurately reflects who we are." Lucado, who has been the pulpit minister for 15 years, said during his Sunday sermon that some find the Church of Christ name to be an insurmountable barrier.

"A common comment from new members is this: 'We would have come sooner, but we had to get over the name of the church.'"

Kaye Daughtry, a member for 25 years, said that's because many people are fed up with denominations.

"We are going to receive people who will visit here who might not have (before)," she said.

Charles Siburt, a ministry professor at Abilene Christian University, a Church of Christ school, said there are other cases of churches that have dropped the name, but it is not a trend.

King said it's a public misunderstanding that the Churches of Christ are a denomination. Churches of Christ are independent, have no central headquarters and are nondenominational.

Oak Hills' core values are similar the those of other evangelical churches, emphasizing the need for faith in Jesus's sacrificial death and resurrection for salvation. Oak Hills also believes salvation doesn't come through baptism, but that baptism is the initial step of obedience after salvation.

Most Churches of Christ feature only a capella singing, a tradition King said is based on the absence of the use of instruments in the New Testament churches. Bur for the first time, Oak Hills will add instruments to a new Sunday evening service, which will be geared toward young adults and will begin early next year.

The three main Sunday morning services will remain traditional, and a video replay of the 8:30 a.m. sermon will be added and shown in an overflow room during the 10 al.m. and 11:30 a.m. services. The church averages about 4,000 worshippers each Sunday.

Lucado's vision also means expanding pastoral care services, which will include hiring a new associate pulpit/singles minister who will preach 12 Sundays a year and will help free Lucado, a best-selling author, to write more.

Lucado asked members to spend the next 40 days praying about these and other initiatives. King said staff members have not decided when the sign will be replaced.

----end from SAEN website

When You Change Your Name,
You Have Changed Your Values

Phil Sanders

Although the name has changed, Lucado said the church's core values will not. We must wonder, how has taking the name of Jesus Christ off of the church sign in front not changed the values. Are they ashamed of the name of Jesus Christ.

Jesus said, "For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when He comes in His glory, and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels" (Luke 9:26). Christians wear the name of Christ; they love the name of Christ; and they willing to suffer for the name of Jesus Christ. Lucado, however, thinks it is more effective evangelistically as a Christian not to put the name of Christ on the sign.

Some today are now rejecting the use of that name, claiming that it is sectarian. Others are rejecting the name because they, frankly, do not want to be associated with the undesirable behavior that some members of the “church of Christ” have manifested. The old statement that “those people believe you have to be a member of the church of Christ to be saved” has led some to be ashamed of anything that uses the phrase, “church of Christ.”

Consequently, a new generation of churches of Christ has adopted some alternative names. Some now go by “Community Church,” putting the phrase “a church of Christ” on the sign in small letters. A minister favoring the change recently gave this explanation: The truth is that the name “Church of Christ” carries the baggage of an exclusivistic mentality to many people in our culture. “Oh, yeah,” somebody says, “those are the people who think they’re the only ones going to heaven.” One lady said that she never would have come into our building if she had known we are a “Church of Christ.” Once she came in and experienced the presence of God in this body, however, she isn’t about to leave! She and her children--from a very different denominational background--are reveling in the experience of Christ in this community of faith. (Rubel Shelly, "What Is Your Church's Name?", Lovelines, Vol. 24, No. 5, Feb. 4, 1998.

Such statements show that some are embarrassed and ashamed of the phrase “Church of Christ.” I must wonder if such people will one day be ashamed of the phrase “family of God” when they suppose that there is too much offensive baggage associated with that name. I wonder if they would change their personal name if some member of the family should disgrace it. Many of those postmodernists who are so quick to embrace the unconditional love and grace of God are slow to forgive what embarrasses them.

It is not an accident that this generation has adopted some new names, nor is it surprising that these new names suggest a change in attitude and may say more about the nature of the new congregations than is at first intended. A nearby denominational group subnames itself, “The People’s Church.” What does that say? I suppose that the members of the congregation wanted the community to know that they were a church “of the people,” i.e., that the common people of the city are part of the congregation. Perhaps they wanted to play up their large size and their appeal to people. Perhaps they wanted the community to know how “in tune” they were to the common opinions and beliefs. My thought was this: if the church belongs to the people, how can it belong to Jesus Christ? If the desires of people are its driving force, how can Jesus be its Lord? Something of this same idea might also be said of the “community” church. Perhaps the idea is that the church is to be identified with the community. This has a fine marketing appeal, but where is the Lord glorified? Does Oak Hills Church now belong to Oak Hills or to Jesus Christ? When they substitute orchestras for Biblical worship, they are not living after the teaching of Jesus.

The words “church of Christ” are not a formal name so much as they are a description of who we are. The Scriptures do not give any title to the church, but no one should doubt that the church uniquely belongs to Jesus. Jesus is the builder of the church (Matt. 16:18); He is the One who purchased it with His blood (Acts 20:28); He is the one and only foundation of the church (1 Cor. 3:11); He is the head of the church (Eph. 1:22,23); and He is the one and only Savior of the body (Eph. 5:23). When Jesus spoke of the church, He called it “my church” (Matt. 16:18); and when Paul describes the congregations, he calls them “churches of Christ” (Rom. 16:16). There is much to be said in associating the church to the name of Jesus Christ.

It must be further pointed out that we as Christians do whatever we do in His name. When we were baptized, it was in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38). When we pray, we pray in His name (John 14:13,14). We give a cup of cold water in His name (Mark 9:41); we gather in His name (Matt. 18:20); and we suffer persecution for His name’s sake (1 Pet. 4:14-16). Repentance and remission of sins are preached in His name (Luke 24:47); we believe in His name (John 1:12); and we have life in His name (John 20:31). Peter reminds us that there is “salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12). Indeed the apostles taught in His name (Acts 5:41), Philip preached His name (Acts 8:12), and Paul bore His name before the Gentiles (Acts 9:15). It is His name that is to be magnified (Acts 19:17); His name that we are to call upon when we are baptized (22:16); and His name that washes, sanctifies and justifies us (1 Cor. 6:11). Saints are those who call upon His name (1 Cor. 1:2). It was in the name of Jesus Christ that Paul both exhorted the Corinthians and turned the wicked man over to Satan (1 Cor. 1:10; 5:4,5). Paul describes the name of Jesus as that which is above every name (Eph. 1:21); and it is the name at which every knee will bow and every tongue confess to the glory of the Father (Phil. 2:9,10). Whatever we do in word or deed, we are to do in the name of the Lord Jesus (Col. 3:17); and His name is to be glorified in us (2 Thess. 1:12). Even slaves are to live worthy of the name of Jesus Christ (1 Tim. 6:1). Consequently, those who name the name of Jesus ought to abstain from wickedness (1 Tim. 2:19). The name we name is more excellent than the name of the angels (Heb. 1:4). To His name we offer a sacrifice of praise, the fruit of our lips (Heb. 13:15). When we minister to saints, we show love to His name (Heb. 6:10). The name of Jesus Christ, by which we are called, is a fair name (James 2:7); it is the name in which we are to glorify God (1 Pet. 4:14-16). We must hold fast to that name (Rev. 2:13), fear His name (Rev. 11:18), and never deny His name (Rev. 3:8). With all these emphases on the name of Jesus Christ, it is unthinkable that any Christian would abandon it.

Should the church wear the name of Jesus Christ? Yes. Should the church denominate that name? No. The phrase “church of Christ” ought always to be a description of who we are and whose we are. Those who are critical of our use of that name, saying we have somehow denominated it ought to be careful that they are not guilty of the same error with other descriptions. According to the newspaper, "Oak Hills' core values are similar the those of other evangelical churches, emphasizing the need for faith in Jesus' sacrificial death and resurrection for salvation. Oak Hills also believes salvation doesn't come through baptism, but that baptism is the initial step of obedience after salvation." If Max and Company are so ashamed of the "church of Christ" that they are removing it from their signs, then perhaps they are finally being honest. Their core value is Evangelical; they have ceased to be New Testament Christians.

Much of this is taken from my book, Adrift, pp. 113-117

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Comments

Reproducing the first notice paragraph of the News above:
"September 6, 2003 Page 7B -- San Antonio Express.......Lisa Harrison Rivas .......
........Max Lucado hopes renaming "his church", ......."

In my poor english (It's not my country language), when you use "HIS" it seens that BELONGS to somebody defined in the phrase, so.....
If "HIS church" wants another name, please do it.
If "HIS church" has such poor faith that needs musical instruments when praise God accompaning their own voices : DO IT !
If it's "HIS CHURCH", he can do whatever wants. It belongs to HIM. Is my english correct ??

One day, I don't know if he will be happy if somebody start to sell HIS books, with another name, just writing ......."A Max Lucado Book".
It's the same with HIS CHURCH, isn't it???

Warning:
"A" Church of Christ it's not "The" Church of Christ

Is my english correct ??

God takes mercy from all of us.

Claudio Rancoleta
rancoleta@sti.com.br
(++55) 11 9795-5395
SP Brasil

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Max also holds out hope for LUCIFER

If I am not mistaken, Max Lucado came late to OPERATON 68. That and other efforts have reversed the standing of the SPIRITISTS in Brazil. However, some were converted to SPIRITISTS and returned to attack the church of Christ--They BIT the hand that FED them. The system flowing out of ACU confesses to training CHANELLERS, PROPHETS and FACILITATORS to go out and HANDLE THE CHANGES.

Max confesses that he finds a topic, finds books which supports the view and then SIMPLIFIES. Of course, Max has always been more extreme than the Baptists who are UNIQUELY AMERICAN but founded on Gnosticism. That is the ONLY WAY a member of the church of Christ can make it BIG TIME selling books into the hands of denominational members who are the BIGGEST BOOK BUYING religious groups.

"CHRISTIANS" will always suffer for their faith and you cannot ASCEND INTO THE LIGHT of popularity with books or music until you have SOLD YOUR SOUL. Max denies that CHRIST came fully in the flesh.

In a television interview in Nashville, TN, July 2, 1997, Max Lucado caused Nashville churches to SELL THEIR SOUL by adopting MUSIC. They call it "HOLY THEATER." Because they confess to being POSTMODERN they can change the truth into a lie. They even brag about INFILTRATING and DIVERTING existing churches to make them SPIRITISTS.

MAX LUCADO WRITES: "I believe in baptism. Jesus was baptized. The Bible teaches baptism. I just don't believe that baptism saves you. I believe that Jesus Christ saves us. And baptism is one of those ways we CELEBRATE our salvation. It's really the initial step of the faithful believer."

KEN SUBLETT: "I believe that the shed blood of Jesus saves us: without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sins. Jesus insists that water baptism is the ANTI-TYPE or is the "INSTEAD of" the shedding of our own blood. Those who reject Baptism as the DIRECT COMMAND of Jesus reject His blood. Therefore, they will have to DIE for their own sins rather than letting Jesus be the INSTEAD OF literal death. THEIR BLOOD will still not SAVE them.

MAX LUCADO WRITES: "I really believe in FAITH. Jesus believed. The Bible teaches faith. I just don't believe FAITH SAVES you. I believe Jesus Christ saves us. And faith is one of those ways we celebrate our salvation. It's really the INITIAL STEP of the faithful believer."

Ken: But this is anti- Christian and anti- Biblical. Max denies faith, repentance, confession and Baptism. As GNOSTIC or CALVINIST, God picks those He wants and sends the LUCIFER- LIKE LIGHT into them. IF they do ANYTHING they are not worthy. Lucifer was the harp-playing prostitute in the garden of Eden, the king/queen of Tyre, the king/queen of Babylon who went into Sheol with HER harps and harpists, and the end - times Babylon Harlot of Revelation 18.

PAUL: "But WITHOUT faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please him: for he that COMMETH to God MUST believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that DILIGENTLY seek him. Heb.11:6

THE GREEK: Ekzeteo (g1567) ek-zay-teh'-o; from 1537 and 2212; to search out, i.e. (fig.) investigate, crave, demand, (by Hebr.) worship: - en- (re-) quire, seek after (carefully, diligently).

John Calvin as perverted in the Baptist Gnosticism could not have said it better. "WITHOUT Faith it is impossible to come to Jesus." Neo-Calvinism says that God saves you by GIVING you the GIFT of FAITH. Paul says that faith comes by HEARING the Word of God. Paul is correct, Max Lucado repudiates Jesus who demanded that "belief which leads to baptism saves" because that is where Jesus PUT His saving power just as rationally as Christ put full Deity into a body of 75% water.

Baptist Believer's Baptism is an ancient PAGAN baptism. The FIRST death of Jesus was not GOOD ENOUGH. As the Catholics must have Jesus DIE for them in the MASS, Baptists believe that Jesus must come so that they CAN DIE with Jesus personally, or even BECOME CHRISTS themselves.

Therefore, Gnostics and Baptists believe that they are saved by supernatural access to GOD but deny everything that JESUS commanded for us to do. That is, they bypass the first century death of Jesus Christ. John Mark Hicks, a pal of both Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly warn that they may DENY THAT CHRIST CAME FULLY IN THE FLESH.

More later: Ken Sublett

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... Comment
embarassed and ashamed

I don't blame Oak Hills Church of Christ for taking "Church of Christ" off of their sign. If I had a choice, I would have it done at our church also. It is ashame the reputation we have forged for ourselves over the past 50 years. "The ones who think they are the only ones going to heaven" is RIGHT. I am 39 and I can't tell you how many HUNDREDS of times I have heard that over my lifetime. But, unfortunately, we have made our bed and now we must lie in it.

To say that they are not "New Testament Christians" is a VERY dangerous statement to make...it borders on Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (to call something of God, of the devil or not of God). I would really rethink that if I were you.

Just because the old pharaseeical version of the Church of Christ that you love so well is dieing off is no reason to criticize a BODY of believers that wish to change the letters on their sign...last time I looked, what sign we have on our building or what we call the name of our churches is NOT commanded ANYWHERE in the Bible.

By the way, THE CHURCH at Oak Hills is making these decisions. They have ELDERS, DEACONS, and MINISTRY LEADERS there. Don't write your article like MAX is making all of these changes. You seem to think that it is HIS fault when obviously the CHURCH at Oak Hills is making these determinations.

My 2 cents....

JeffD

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And for this cause, God shall send

a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. That they all might be damned who believednot the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thess. 2:11-12
Jeff - Beware of him who makes the lie look like truth and the truth look like a lie!
I
I feel it is not a good move for the Lord's body, to get into accomodations, whether those are geared towards members or non-members For the very reasons stated above! The assembly of the Saints is for the purpose of worship - not evangelism. I think we are becoming so lazy as individuals, about teaching the Gospel, that we are trying to make the church as a whole do what the individuals should be doing. And that is only one problem.

My question for you Jeff is where would you draw the line? You stated you are pro-moving away from the church of the past 50 years, so what else would you change and why? And How far would you go?

We are not supposed to give Satan a toehold - For adopting that stance we have been seen as rigid - But have we not learned from our history? Look at the gay/lesbian issue. Look at what the media has done, once the "toehold" was given - Now there is a "token" gay in every movie or sitcom!
So Oak Hills is not just changing the name on the sign, but is also adding instrument music to their worship - where will they go next?
Deborah (awing-and-aprayer)

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get a clue and wake up

First of all, they are adding an instrument to their SUNDAY NIGHT service. But, no matter, it is really not important. As far as worship goes, the Word talks about our WHOLE LIFE being worship.

Sunday mornings are not the only reserved time for that. Where do you get that Sunday mornings are for the worship of "the saints" as you call us? I see NOTHING in scripture about that.

All of you old foggies who seek to limit worship because of you traditional stances woudl have us believe that one thing leads to another and before we know it we have gay preachers or somthing like that.

There is a difference between holding to traditions that WE have created and simply changing our worship because of cultural differences. There is everything wrong with the former and nothing wrong with the later. Wake up and smell the coffee. The 50s brand church that you know is DIEING. Get on board the J train and come into the 21st century.

All of you that worship tradition will be left behind by God who seeks to move HIS church forward.

Just my 2 cents...

Jeff

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A Member of the church of Christ

If we are ashamed of being called member's of the church of Christ then I know that someday we won't being going to heaven. I am not ashamed to be a member of His church, the church of Christ, and I know that Jesus is not ashamed of me. I am ashamed of those that want to change the name of the Lord's church. Where is their love for Christ? When we marry, the women take the name of their husbands to show the world that we belong to that person. After all aren't we the bride of Christ? I am afraid the some people will have much to answer for. I will pray for them that they would return to their first love before it is to late.

A member of the
church of Christ,
Rusty Hutchinson
123 Turner Street
West Liberty, KY 41472

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You should be ashamed

if you think that the members of the Church of Christ are the only ones going to heaven, well you are sadly mistaken. Try reading John 17. Jesus will enlighten you a bit. Just a hint - He talks about ALL BELIEVERS.

just my opinion.

Jeff

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This sounds like...

"And an argument arose amongst them...." Luke 9:46-50. and Jesus said" Do not forbid him, for he that is not against you is for you" RS ("..for us" KJ). Jesus seems to be the only one able to determine who is for and who is against. Sure we are be on guard and stay away from those that would lead us astray. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world or so I'm told and so far I have not been convinced it is what I should be following. Being raised in the Church of Christ I could not ever figure out where the rules of church came from, I couldn't find all of them in any Bible version I have ever seen. Where was the "church of Christ" from about 350 AD to the 1800's? The restoration gave us what we are traditionalized on today. Is the church at Oak Hills beginning a new restoration or not? I love singing in the worship -I don't like pianos -they make too much noise and I have been to several services where this is used, so i'm not unexperienced. Can't stand to hear a person sing off key -it is bad as a piano, but I still can't find in the Bible where we are to sing in 4 part harmony... In Him , DSnow

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Name of Church

354-430 Augustine of Hippo

"For the Jews slew Christ, lest they should lose their PLACE.

.."Christ slain, they lost their place. Rooted out of the kingdom were they, dispersed were they. He, raised up, requited them tribulation, He requited them unto admonition, not yet unto condemnation. For the city wherein the people RAGED, as a ramping and a roaring lion, crying out, "Crucify Him, Crucify Him," the Jews rooted out therefrom, hath now Christians, by not one Jew is inhabited.

..."There is planted the CHURCH of CHRIST, whence were rooted out the thorns of the synagogue. For truly this fire blazed "as the fire of thorns."

.."When we have to do with PAGANS, and show this coming to pass in the CHURCH of CHRIST, which before was predicted of the NAME of CHRIST, of the HEAD and BODY of CHRIST, lest they think that we have forged these predictions, and from things which have happened, as though they were future, had made them up, we bring forth the books of the Jews.

www.piney.com

Catholic means universal. However, the Catholics called themselves the church of Christ. When Constantine gave favors to the church of CHRIST, they did exactly what once church of Christs are doing. The preachers FOR THE FIRST TIME were paid and the Pagan priests came flocking into the church to become PRIESTS. The church became a SEEKER church and added pagan practices such as candles and MUSIC.

FROM THE CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA

"We need not shrink from admitting that candles, like incense and lustral water, were commonly employed in PAGAN WORSHIP and in the RITES paid to the DEAD. (RE AMOS 5, 6)

"But the Church from a very early period took them into her service, just as she adopted many other things indifferent in themselves, which seemed proper to ENHANCE the splendour of religious CEREMONIAL. We must not forget that most of these adjuncts to worship, like MUSIC, lights, perfumes, ablutions, floral decorations, canopies, fans, screens, bells, vestments, etc.

.."were not identified with ANY IDOLATROUS cult in particular;

....THEY WERE COMMON TO ALMOST ALL CULTS.

TO FULFILL REVELATION 18 ON THE BABYLON HARLOT WE SEE THAT HISTORY DOES REPEAT ITSELF.

Ken Sublett.

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Isn't evangelism our commission from Christ himself?

Phil Sanders last statement, "Their core value is Evangelical; they have ceased to be New Testament Christians."... I would like to know what the New Testament Christian is if he is not an evangelist. Our purpose as the body of Christ is to seek and save the lost... this is evangelism. I don't understand how we can be so proud in our own belief of what is "right" that we say such things that certainly do not reflect the love of Christ and His purpose for coming to this earth as a man.
I believe we have to agree to disagree in some areas. I have always been a member of the church of Christ. And I do understand how at first blush taking "of Christ" off of the name of a building is maybe offensive to some. But as you pointed out, there is no biblical mandate for the name of a body of Christians. The Oak Hills family and Max Lucado are certainly not ashamed of Christ, it is their whole mission to bring a lost and dying world into a relationship with Christ. I've personally never understood how we could say that members of other churches that do not bear the name "church of Christ" are not Christians and are not saved... isn't Christ their purpose for existence as well?
I am not an "anything goes" person of the church. I do think fundamental salvational doctrine should be continued. But to put "rules" and impose our personal beliefs and opinions on others about the name on a building, instruments, and evangelistic methods is exactly what Christ came to this earth to abolish... legalism; human rules and regulations. He came to give us the freedom of His grace when He lives in us. And he expects our hearts to reflect the same love for others as the love He has for them. Christ reigns still on this earth through his followers.
I am admittedly an appreciative reader of Lucado's writings. How you can read a Lucado book, and not finish the book with more love for Jesus in your heart than before, is beyond me. It is very hard for me to see how we can criticize with so much human pride and opinion a ministry that is saving the lost by the thousands! But is that the issue here? Whether these people are saved because their methods of evangelizing may be different? And if they are saved children of God, isn't that all that really matters in the end.

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Evangelism

Comments:

I am not an "anything goes" person of the church. I do think fundamental salvational doctrine should be continued. But to put "rules" and impose our personal beliefs and opinions on others about the name on a building, instruments, and evangelistic methods is exactly what Christ came to this earth to abolish... legalism; human rules and regulations. He came to give us the freedom of His grace when He lives in us.

=====================================

But MAX clearly goes beyond the Baptist GNOSTICISM and repudiates faith, repentance, confession and baptism as having ANYTHING to do with salvation.

You must grasp that the Promise Keepers Shepherding or Discipling Dilema, as well as the Purpose Driven Cult insists that the BIBLE AS TRUTH and the entire CHRISTENDOM era came to an end about the year Y2K. Max has followed the PATTERN and has established a PASTORAL GROUP for San Antonio in keeping with Promise Keepers plan to include all NEW truth and all NEW religion in an ECUMENICAL, know nothing but Charismatic religion.

Because Max speaks in tongues and claims to be a prophet and got a VISION for this radical sowing of discord (He got it out of Coach McCartney's Play book), NO ONE dares oppose him. Sorry, but Max writes FICTION which repudiates the Word of God and that is OK because we live in the POST-CHRISTENDOM ERA.

It is EXACTLY Max Lucado who IMPROVIZED "rules" and IMPOSED his PERSONAL beliefs and opinions on OTHERS about the NAME on a BUILDING, INSTRUMENTS, and EVANGELISTIC methods. So, why are you blaming others for what MAX is doing? Max in speaking and writing directs his views to the feminine side and lacks any LOVE FOR THE WORD which is said by a Nun to be the MASCULINE form of religion.

Jesus condemned the SECTARIANS of his day and especially the Pharisees (stealers of houses of widows now expanded to stealing CHURCH HOUSES of widows), Scribes (book peddlers of untruth) and HYPOCRITES. The Hypocrites were SECTS in the Greek and Jewish world. They were performance speakers, singers and musicians. They are the SORCERERS in the end time religon of Revelation 18 and they were ALL identified as PARASITES.

The same Athenian authorities who controlled the Flute- players (prostitutes) also controlled the DUNG HEAP and the CEMETARY. That is exactly why Jesus cast the Musical Team out just as one EJECTS DUNG.

So, Bible 101aaa could never see MUSIC as coming from anyone but LUCIFER who brought wind, string and percussion instruments into the Garden of Eden (the story of the King/Quees of Tyre and Babylon and the end time harlot church of Revelation 18)

SO it is MAX and his ditto head in Nashville who is IMPOSING on others WITHOUT A VOTE exactly what Jesus repudiated when the "musical children of the marketplace, (CDs, False Books, etc) PIPED (as in prostitute) to try to get Jesus to sing and dance the Dionysus, perverted choral which was the RELIGION of the Jerusalem Clergy inherited from the Abomination of Desolation standing in the Holy Place which was a TYPE of the body or church of Christ.

It is happening again and by depending too much on the emotional smothering of reading Max, people have LOST THEIR EYES AND EARS and Jesus does not speak to them anymore. Max, came back from Brazil with more SPIRITISTS (Voodoo) and he left the SYNAGOGUE OF CHRIST in Brazil. I have posted an index of reviews: Max REPUDIATES anything claimed by the BIBLE and submits his own FICTIONAL views as its replacement. He sounds like Lucian of Samosata's SPACE TRAVEL and telling about how ALEXANDER THE ORACLE MONGER knew that you could "spin a top (to get a message from the whizzing) and play the flute and steal the wealth of the FAT HEADS AND SIMPLETONS.

www.piney.com

I have reviewed MAX'S (and only Max's) VISION for a denomination with him as head of the MOTHER CHURCH showing that this is fulfilled prophecy.

www.piney.com

Phil has used the absolute demand that HE TESTS THE SPIRITS and shows from the Bible that both Max and Jesus cannot BOTH be correct. Furthermore, don't try to deprive Phil of his first ammendment rights: that is the FIRST way that those who are SHOOTING YOU IN THE HEART try to INTIMIDATE and head off any SASSING OF CELESTIAL BEINGS by blaming Phil for bleading on Maxs' dancing slippers.

I have added some research to show that it is the prophesied HARLOT CHURCH and the fruition of the PROMISE KEEPERS cult to get ALL CHURCHES under HER wing. Remember, that the REMNANT will be so tiny that it probably cannot even be seen as it is chased out of the TEMPLES OF DOOM and "outside the city" where Jesus promises to meet us while the MUSICIANS make up their shipment to warmer climates. [That is supportable]

This has total BIBLICLAL and HISTORICAL authority and you CANNOT find Jesus giving GRACE to violate His explicit commandments often in PARABLES which the Maxes cannot see or hear. Didn't He leave a million people ignorant (by their own religion) to die as the temple, like all temples, are torn down brick by brick to prove that you cannot FACILITATE an access to God in temples madw tih hands. A million people perished but of those who obeyed the GO not a single believer got BURNED UP.

Jesus didn't say I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH but I WILL BUILD MY SYNAGOGUE. The synagogue which He attended HAD NO PRAISE SERVICE because it was a SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. At the same time, He tore down and continues to tear down TEMPLES made with human hands to worship with human hands in the RELIGIOUS sense.

Jesus would insist that all of that STAFF INFECTION be fired and the money used to send evangelists who would LOVE to go out if the MEGA CHURCHES had not stolen all of the money. Jesus said GO.

Ken Sublett

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Kenny is the False Prophet...

Kenny, again you never cease to amaze me with your non sensical diatribes. YOU DON'T MAKE ANY SENSE. You claim Promise Keepers is a cult..PROVE IT! Have you ever been to a PK meeting? Do you know Max Lucado personally? All these are necessary for you to spout off like you do. You need a little more time in the sanitarium my backwoods friend.

You do not help your cause with your blusterings, you only show how big of a fool you really are.

JeffD

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Speechless and Heart-sore...

I truly am speechless at how so many have come to believe that "doing" Christianity "right" requires a scholarly view of New Testament Christianity. Christ did not come for just the intelligent and learned, he came for EVERYONE. Do you really think someone has to understand the rhetoric you have above to be a SAVED follower of Christ? Christ came to simplify the written code, and he asked only for people to put their faith in Him and follow Him until the end. (And, yes, I believe that includes public confession of Christ as Savior and baptism by immersion.) Max Lucado aside, your view of the church and all that it takes for those in the church to be RIGHT, and so to be saved, is derived from emotions of pride and ego... the need to have much knowledge and make it your campaign for others to know that you have it "right". Most people in the church that believe this way grew up in a similar, legalistic environment, and seem to become more passionate about proving their opinion right than about loving and following Christ, and certainly more than loving their neighbors (which is everyone). I find through personal observation that the more legalistic a person becomes, anger and bitterness and even hate usually increase in the soul proportionately. It's interesting to me that those persons who hold to the more "simple" views of Christianity that you would consider far from truth, are much brighter lights of Christ's love in this world.

I am TRULY speechless that apparently you consider anyone who listens to instruments or plays an instrument to be sorcerers and parasites, including children. And I have no idea where the backup research is for your rather bold and hateful opinion of Max Lucado. I clicked on your above links, and it's just more rhetoric similar to yours above. I respectfully assert that your OPINION is not proof of your claims.

This is not a personal attack. As a matter of fact, I know many people who hold your views, and I used to be one of them to a degree. However, the more personal my relationship becomes with Christ, the more un-truthful some of the traditional beliefs of our church become to me. Moving away from church being something you "do" with a definite routine and predictability, to an experience of communing continually with Christ, has made me see the difference in what are our traditions and man-made routines and practices, and in what are the true teachings of Christ. I believe that the inspired Word of God could have been a very short book if He had intended for us to have a checklist from which to live our lives (much like The Ten Commandments). Instead, He intended for us to have many examples of how He would have us live our lives based on how He lived His on this earth. He sees what's in our hearts, and I believe it is by that standard that we will be judged on the final day.

My heart truly aches for all of the members of the church who are imprisoned with so many regulations and “to do” lists to make sure they’re right with God. And that is not meant to be patronizing, truly. I know from personal experience that the more animosity and resentment and bitterness you have in your heart, the less room there is for Jesus there. It takes our focus off of Christ, and puts it back on self. He asked us to give up "self" for Him.

Let's agree to disagree. It's a shame that we can not all realize that everyone will never agree on all form or tradition, and that Christ never taught us to worship and serve him in that way, with restrictive ceremonies or routine. I, honestly, am sincerely astounded that we cannot see that Satan is smiling at us, and Christ is greatly saddened.

This will be my only reply to your post. Feel free to post again, however, if you'd like. I am not interested in arguing or having a theological debate. I believe that is also frowned upon by Christ. Anyway, I'm off to a ship to cruise the Caribbean for the next week... I pray that we can ALL (including myself) check our hearts continually to see if we find there divisiveness, or love; self, or Christ. I pray also that we may find peace in our own beliefs, and reserve an attitude of bold judgment of the saved or not saved to the only Judge that counts. May God bless you as a believer in Christ.

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MUSIC off the List

Music AS WORSHIP is the topic. The entire Bible takes MUSIC off the list and theologians understood why. Too bad that the SINGY-CLAPPY guys don't let someone teach the basics. Here is one commentator and there is NO exception:

Tertullian, c. 155-220? De Spectaculis

www.piney.com

Chapter XXVIII. Christians Mourn While the World Rejoices. Circe was the holy whore who gave her name to CHURCH. On the other hand, Jesus founded a School of the Bible. Only the pagan temples CALLED people in with effeminate music which John promises will return to Sheol.

With such dainties as these let the devil's guests be feasted. The places and the times, the inviter too, are theirs. Our banquets, our nuptial joys, are yet to come. We cannot sit down in fellowship with them, as neither can they with us. Things in this matter go by their turns.
..Now they have gladness and we are troubled.
...."The world," says Jesus, "shall rejoice; ye ....shall be sorrowful." (John xvi. 20)
..Let us mourn, then, while the heathen are merry,
....that in the day of their sorrow we may rejoice;
..lest, sharing now in their gladness,
....we share then also in their grief. Thou art too DAINTY,

Comment: Jesus is the Captain of our souls and the ONLY teacher when the elders "teach that which has been taught." He promises to be with two or three gathered in HIS name:

..For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. Heb 2:10

The disciples follows in the foot steps of their Captain and worship leader. Remember that the major reason for the assembly was to teach the WORD and to GIVE HEED to Jesus by the Lord's Supper where we remember and preach HIS DEATH. When He meets with us it is not to do whoopy or wow "worship" but:

..Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. Heb 2:12
....And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. Heb 2:13

The church is the ekklesia or Synagogue of Christ. There was no praise in the synagogue but TEACHING that which is written:

..Apaggello (g518) ap-ang-el'-lo; from 575 and the base of 32; to announce: - bring word (again), declare, report, shew (again), tell.
....Aggelos (g32) ang'-el-os; from aggeållo, [prob. der. from 71; comp. 34] (to bring tidings); a messenger; esp. an "angel"; by impl. a pastor: - angel, messenger

If Jesus is singing with us this is what it will be;

..Apalgeo (g524) ap-alg-eh'-o; from 575 and algeåo, (to smart); to grieve out, i.e. become apathetic: - be past feeling

Tertullian again: Christian, if thou wouldst have pleasure in this life as well as in the next; nay, a fool thou art, if thou thinkest this life's pleasures to be really pleasures. The philosophers, for instance,
..give the name of pleasure to QUIETNESS and REPOSE; in that they have their bliss; in that they find entertainment: they even glory in it.

....Jesus died to give us REPOSE:
........Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Mt.11:28
.......Anapauo (g373) an-up-ow'-o; from 303 and 3973; (reflex.) to repose (lit. or fig. [be exempt], remain); by impl. to refresh: - take ease, refresh, (give, take) rest.

..You long for the goal, and the STAGE, and the DUST, and the place of COMBAT!

....The burden laded by CIRCE or the CHURCH or clergy is:
........Phortizo (g5412) for-tid'-zo; from 5414; to load up (prop. as aa vessel or animal), i.e. (fig.) to overburden with ceremony (or spiritual anxiety): - lade, be heavy laden.

I would have you answer me this question: Can we not live without pleasure, who cannot but with pleasure die? For what is our wish but the apostle's, to leave the world, and be taken up into the fellowship of our Lord? (Phil. i. 23.)
..You have your joys where you have your longings.

Chapter XXIX. Freedom From Pleasure, Exorcism, False Literature which Replaces the Bible

Ken Sublett

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... Comment
If you think Max is NOT calling the shots at Oak Hills, you are naive at best...

This is one of the defining clues of a 'celebrity' church. The most visible member, in this case Max Lucado, is the 'pastor' as he has been called by several members of the news media here in San Antonio.

Between his books, personal apperances and other trappings of celebrity, he IS running things at Oak Hills. If you think he is still a minister and not a celebrity who can't be reached by the average John or Jane Doe, just call Oak Hills and ask for Max to come to your house for a Bible study. I'm sure you'll be told someone will contact you or come by, but if you insist, you'll be told "Max is too busy with traveling, writing, and appearances on TV and radio to do personal studies any more."

By the way, celebrity preachers are becoming quite common here in San Antonio among the denominations. We've had Buckner Fanning formerly at Trinity Babptist Church (now know through Buckner Fanning Ministries) and John Hagee at Cornerstone Church (Hagee is a church of God ordained preacher--wonder how many of his 'parishoners' would attend if they knew they were attending Cornerstone Pentecostal Church?).

I, for one, am a New Testament Christian working and worshiping in the San Antonio area that is glad to see Oak Hills drop the name 'church of Christ.' While they see it as holding them back while they wore the name, I saw it holding back the faithful churches of the New Testament in this area. Everything they did in the name of 'church of Christ' was often associated with ALL churches of Christ in this area. We are now free to preach and practice the New Testament gospel of Jesus Christ without having to explain or undo the damage they have done.

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Gripped by grace

I have good news and bad news: the good news pronounced by Max is this:

Bro. L's concept of grace is so strong that if a man is "given only the TESTIMONY of CREATION, then he has enough" (p. 23). That means that some can be saved without knowing Christ, or the message of the Bible simply by "know(ing) God through he handiwork of nature" (Ibid.) John Waddey

"Bro. L's boat can accommodate such interesting beliefs as "once saved always saved," predestination, premillennialism, speaking in tongues, clerical robes, etc. In explaining who is to be accepted on God's ship (church) he says, "The Master says examine the person's faith. If he or she has faith in Jesus and is empowered by God, grace says that's enough" (p. 168).

THE BAD NEWS.

The evidence of Creation simply leaves people WITHOUT EXCUSE.

He delights in sarcastic allusions to people like us. "If I read my Bible, have the right opinion on the right doctrines, if I join this movement..." (p. 12). This is a line from his portrait of those he classes as legalists. He goes on to describe those who strive to please God by obeying his will as having "a religious godlessness." (Ibid.). He paints us as boasting about our "five steps" (p. 6) while we stand "knee deep in the water" trying to save ourselves (p. 5). John Waddey.

Max is just Biblically literate enough to, in Paul's words, "fool the fools." Of course, San Antonio is blessed beyond Paradise: Lynn Anderson who seems to know little Bible and believe less has teamed up to INFILTRATE and DIVERT and "steal church houses of widows" to make up their new denomination without having to do it the OLD FASHIONED WAY: buy your own. That is so cute, so postmodern. Here is an index of some Lynn Anderson Research:

www.piney.com

Hay, don't go spilling your guts even if you DO have a brand new, STORE BOTTEN, Shepherding or Discipling Dilema minister riding on the backs of widows and the hard working "audience." Local kid tried to pet the tail of a purely beautiful Copperhead: yep, viper turned and stung him. Someone tell the elders who broke down the walls to the sheepfold that they are goners and the world is just gonna laught at them if they pretend to be the SHEPHERDS of the Flock when everyone knows that the HIRELINGS have turned the SHEPHERDS into tools and fools.

Ken Sublett

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Let's try some truth, ken

Ken, I know that you may find it hard that someone will actually disagree with you, but let's talk about the way things actually are in a world of reality. First, I am a member of Oak Hills.
Second, the Elders, along with members of the staff, undertook a year long study on the issue of instrumental music. The ELDERS concluded as they did, not Max with a gun to their heads. In fact, Max was not a part of the study.
Third, Max does not speak in tongues. I do not know if your quotation of Max supposedly speaking in tongues is one of your erotic fantasies or supposed to be fact. If you contend that it is factual, then I will be the first to call you a LIAR.

Get your facts straight and quit your suppositions which only make you look foolish.

Tom

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Truth

Max returned from Brazil and got lumped in with Don Finto who, I believe, lost his grip and went to Roswell. He got a vision that HE was THE leader: even claims to be an apostle over OTHER churches. Does that sound like San Antonio? It is all secret but I think there are several who have ANNOINTED one another as 13th apostles. Much of this was PK Atlanta where the CLERGY got STUNG by the vipers and just threw away the Bible.

Your STAFF has NO AUTHORITY to take over the roles of the BODY: Elders are circumscribed to "teach that which has been taught" and to "rebuke those who oppose it." They are the God-ordained Pastor- teacher who along with the Deacons are the teachers of the flock. Paul assumed that they were "more APT to be Bible scholars than APT to chase a coon."

The STAFF brought the INFECTION with them and make the decisions: make no mistake about it and they know who butters their UNLAWFUL "crust of bread."

If the STAFF made the decision why is their WHITE PAPER so much like that of Farmer's Branch which LIES about every "musical" passage in the Bible. They just can't be that IGNORANT of the bible and 2,000 years of SCHOLARLY comment which is ANTI- INSTRUMENTAL and universally associates MUSIC with religious prostitutes and sodomites. It began when Lucifer (she/he) led the revolt and came into the garden of Eden with wind, string and percussion instruments. She is the harp- playing prostitute as the king/queen of Tyre, harps and harpists go back into Sheol as the king/queen of Babylon and SHOWS UP about now as APOLLYON who digs up the LOCUSTS who were the LEGENDARY Muses now stinging with their scorpion tails which bring on a deadly plague with running sores.

Just waiting for a bite:

www.piney.com

There is a link to the EAR WITNESS and he has the tapes which MARK the sowing of discord in Nashville led by STAFF which as "rhetoricians (slick speakers), sOPHISts (serpents, sorcerers in Revelation), singers, musicians and CRAFTSMEN. Jesus pointed to the SECTARIAN LEGALISTS as Pharisees (steals church houses of widows), Scribes (book writers fictionalizing the Word) and HYPOCRITES. These were singers, actors and musicians. The Greek knows them as SPONGERS or TOADEATERS who acted as mantic prophesiers (as in Corinth). Because they ATE and consumed the WIDOW'S livlihood they were UNIVERSALLY identified as PARASITES.

THE ELDERS ARE FLAT WRONG: there is NO music word connected with the people's worship in the entire Bible. The TEMPLE as well as the Law was added because of transgression (musical idolatry) at Mount Sinai. The people's congregation, assembly (Qahal Synagogue) was ordained in the wilderness and was the EKKLESIA (not church) in the wilderness where any loud sounds (not music) and "making a joyful noise before the Lord was outlawed.

The sacrificial system added because God TURNED THEM OVER to worship the starry host--including Saturn or Chiun whose number was 666--BECAUSE of their musical idolatry and later the ELDERS fired God and demanded a king like the nations (dominant king/queen). He warned that the kings would DESTROY them including confiscating the young boys to make instruments of Chariots to BLOW the common people out of the way.

The CURSE God pronounced on them was that the kings (given in His anger and taken away in his anger) would force the people to TITHE and he would take the property and give it to his STAFF INFECTION or cronnies. This CURSE sounds just like the KING in churches who builds a PYRAMIDAL structure (See Richland Hills). There, A HIRED MINISTER (deacons) is attached to the ELDER IN CHARGE. The deacons who have outreach teaching authority with the elders are fired and replaced with ameniable DEACONESSES.

IF YOUR ELDERS REACHED THE CONCLUSION THAT THERE IS NOTHING IN THE BIBLE TO PROHIBITE MUSIC AS WORSHIP THEY ARE UNDER CONTROL OF THE STAFF WHO SUPERVISES THEM. THEY GET BY WITH IT BECAUSE PEOPLE "DO NOT DARE" QUESTION THE leader who GETS VISIONS but which comes out of the PK "fool the fools playbook." No. They got it from the LEADERS at Farmer's Branch.

If the elders made the decision then why did Max say that taking Christ off the sign, repudiating baptism and anything but just acknowledging the god of creation of "calling God your father," and a VISION to add instrumental music (which had already been introduced like heating the water to boil a frog.)

If YOU knew what was going on then the CHANGE agenda would not be working, would it.

Ken

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Truth

Ken, Oak Hills is led by 15 of the most humble servants of God that you could meet. They spend countless hours meeting together dealing with all of the issues that arise in a 4000 (and rapidly growing) member church. All of the men come from a church of Christ background, and, ironically, most come from extremely conservative backgrounds.

When studying the issue of instrumental music, they drew greatly on the biblical knowledge and expertise of Charles Prince, a retired former minister of Oak Hills who has been a church of Christ minister since the 1950's. Charles is a brilliant man who has greatly blessed the congregation since his retirement 10 years ago.

Unlike what you say, the STAFF has not taken over the BODY. But what the Elders HAVE done is continue to grow and learn from sources available as to what the Bible teaches. Have you reached a point that you have all knowledge in your head or do you continue to grow and learn?

Actually, the name change was pushed largely by a (now retired) elder named David Carpenter. Dave comes from an "anti" background and was an elder at Oak Hills for probably 20 years. He and his wife, Charlene, are great servants of the Lord and have reached many people for the Lord and have raised Godly children. Dave and Charlene moved into a new housing area a few years back and made the effort to knock the door of every home in their new neighborhood and invite their neighbors to services with them. (This was around 100 homes.) By far, the greatest response they received was that the neighbors were thankful they stopped by, but because of the name "church of Christ" associated with their church, the neighbors would not visit. Some of the neighbors related very frightful encounters with members of the "church of Christ" in the past. So they began thinking, what can Oak Hills do to remove this impediment to people coming to services at Oak Hills. This is where the idea started, not Max as you incorrectly assumed.

By the way, I believe that the study on baptism found on the church's website, www.oakhillschurchofchrist.org hits the nail on the head as far as biblical teaching on baptism. Don't make it something that it is not, but do not dilute the power and necessity for it.

If you are quoting some supposed tape of Max speaking in tongues you are again WRONG. (Much like many of your other assumptions.) Perhaps you should take the time to leave your home, come to San Antonio, and visit with Max. I will even buy you dinner. And, do not come back with this "Max is unreachable." Max is the most accessible (and humble, as a matter of fact) person that I know. Especially given his schedule. It is very easy to demonize someone from a distance that you have never even met. Agree or disagree with the decisions, there are legitimate reasons and rationale for each one. I have spoken to Max about Don Finto and he does not know where he comes up with being an "apostle". He said if that is what he thinks then he is "wrong." Perhaps you should also try to find the truth before you continue to spread your false rumors.

For example, the Oak Hills building is located on Interstate 10 in a nicer area of San Antonio. When we moved to this location, we moved our food and clothing ministry (which now serves 1000 families per month) to a mostly abandoned inner city church of Christ facility. We have recently purchased 6 acres of land in their community to construct a larger food and clothing facility as well as provide a building for worship services and bible study. Oh, forgot to mention that as a direct result of this outreach ministry, over 100 have been baptized (you know, that thing you claim we have eliminated) into Christ, but because of transportation issues most of these people are squeezed into a small room for Sunday services in Spanish at the inner city facility.

Finally, one last thing on the name. There will be something added on the name which reflects the name of Christ. (Much like many other churches of Christ across the country who are attempting to reach the lost.) A final decision on that has not been made and if you drive I 10 today, you will still see Church of Christ. Of course, our biggest problem is facility size. We have not enough parking spaces and not enough seating spaces in the auditorium. Between second and third service yesterday, no parking spaces were left available on our property.

I am curious of two things, Ken. Do you attend services at a congregation of the Lord's people? If so, which congregation. Second, do they have these problems?

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Truth

In the worship bulletin for the Oak Hills Church of Christ (Max Lucado, pulpit minister) on September 5, 1999, (when their guest speaker was Buckner Fanning, of the Trinity Baptist Church in San Antonio) the following was printed:
"After many months of careful study and consideration,
.....the elders UNANIMOUSLY concluded that there is no Biblical prohibition of the use of mechanical instruments in worship. The same background says that they agreed by CONSENSUS. This is not ethical: 10 vote for, 9 against. The 9 have sold their soul to become an elder and agree to violate their conscience and vote with the ten. That is how you get the word UNANIMOUSLY. I would say that there is considerable DIVISION among the elders and that which they agreed to came to PASS too fast being boosted along with a VISION

Sorry Tom but godly elders cannot be elders and come up with a conclusion which is OPPOSED by 100% of the Bible and documentation. Not even the Catholics presumed to get authority for NON-MASS instruments (their true worship) from the Bible. They were "common to all pagan cults. I have reviewed the elders report and one could ANTICIPATE that this was a slow injection of Poison which, by Lynn Anderson's warning, may take ten years to work.

www.piney.com

TOM now blames Charles Prince and Max Lucado praises Charles Prince:

Max Lucado: This was a major move and we came to it CAUTIOUSLY. I remember Charles Prince preaching on the topic of Christian unity and urging us to "not consult our fears."

You don't have to slither up to any BIBLICAL practice. In 2003 Max has a VISION to carry out the "prophetic statement of error" from the elders and STAFF.

Max Lucado: God calls us to do the same. Over the last few months, I've SENSED our Master URGING us to expand our dreams for San Antonio. He calls us to a fresh VISION: a vision of a city-impacting church.

NOW, TOM, HERE IS THE ORIGIN: NOT THE ELDERS.

...As the details of this VISION crystallized for me, I shared them with our ELDERS.
......They prayed, pondered, and tested the ideas and, ultimately saw them as God's will for Oak Hills.

So, it was left to MAX LUCADO to use psychological violence by claiming a vision to introduce what had been intended all along and had been cautiously or cunningly slipped in.

Max Lucado: "Recognizing the POWER of contemporary music, these new assemblies will be instrumental. A soft keyboard beneath an altar call, the sound of a cello during communion service...these tools enhance outreach. After fifteen years and several thousand sermons, I am convinced instrumentation reaches HEARTS.

As Rubel Shelly provided a "VENUE FOR ROCK AND ROLL" that "F" word, they all know that VOODOO reaches hearts: just like the MELODY arrows of Apollo reached real hearts.

THIS IS FULFILLMENT OF END TIMES PROPHECY. Melody or PSALLO as related to BOWS, ARROWS and harps (zithers, twanging bowstrings) the meaning is

Psallô [psaô = to grind to powder]

I. to touch SHARPLY, to PLUCK, PULL, TWITCH, Aesch.; toxou (arrows) neuran ps.
..to TWANG the bow-string, Eur.; BELOS ek KERAOS
--to send a shaft TWANGING from the BOW
..a carpenter's red line, which is twitched and then suddenly let go, so as to LEAVE a MARK

And only LATER to sing to a harp:

II. to play a stringed instrument with the FINGERS, NOT with the PLECTRON,

This is because PSALLO in the external sense means to TWANG the string with your fingers to SEND a "singing arrow" into the heart to KILL.

The expression: BELOS ek KERAOS ps.

belos [ballô, as Lat. jaculum from jacio] (Jesus ejected the Musical Minstrels like dung)

  1. a missile, esp. an ARROW, dart, bolt,
  2. like enchos, used of any WEAPON, as a SWORD, Ar.: an axe, Eur. (Paul=Lifeless instrument or Carnal WeaponS)

IF YOU CLAIM THE INSTRUMENT IS IN PSALLO OR MELODY THEN YOU CONFESS THAT YOU ARE THE END-TIME APOLLYONS WHO SHOOTS HIS REAL ARROWS WITH HIS FINGERS -- NEVER, NEVER WITH A PLECTRON.

Remember that Max Lucado after his VISION: "As the details of this VISION CHRYSTALLIZED for ME, I shared them with our elders.
....They prayed, pondered, and TESTED the ideas and, ultimately saw them as God's will for Oak Hills.

But they DID NOT, COULD NOT HAVE searched the Scriptures. If you can PRAY for new revelation then Jesus the Christ (full Deity) died in vain. Elders are commanded to "teach that which has been taught." I suspect that they know that Max has them by sensitive places: Max leaves and, Ooops! there goes Oak Hills which has been the TROUBLER in Zion for half a century: just in time for the end times.

Both Paul and Peter wrote their EYE WITNESS events and their encounter with Jesus Christ. They CLAIMED that the Word had been validated by the SUPERNATURAL SIGNS. Therefore, if you FOLLOW anything not recorded for our instruction you OPEN the sheep fold and allow the WOLVES or false prophets to get in. IT IS AN absolute MARK of a false prophet to go beyond what is written.

Under the penalty of violating the command to GIVE AN ANSWER for all of the sowing of Discord, either Charles Prince, the elders, or Max Lucado MUST give account by letting us read Charles vision which contradicts everything written from the Fall from heaven to the end-time Babylon harlot loaded up by STAFF INFECTION which infects a plague using craftsmen, singers, musicians, and instrumentalISTS.

The PsalmODIA, fluteISTS, harpISTS are the sorcerers in the book of Revelation. Without exception, the Greek world identifies them as PARASITES along with the rhetoricians who care less for the Word as it has been written.

I directed you to the site which DOES NOT LIE:

www.bible-infonet.org

Rusty said, "Uh, if you could first pray for me, because ... ah ... you know ... the TONGUES is his, not mine. And, uh, and when the "SPIRIT of PROPHECY" comes upon me I have to STEP BCK and let the Holy Spirit worketh [sic] in me. So if you could just EXTEND YOUR FAITH towards me and just ask God for his perfect word to RISE up in me (voice, We do).

And your doing it. Gotta see it from your perspective- not ours. And so the Lord says, I am doing a GOOD THING. The Lord said, I've had MY hand upon this CHURCH for many, many years. O. many, many years. I've brought thee through suffering. I've brought thee through persecution. I've brought thee through changes. I've brought thee through REORGANIZATION (with Don Finto as the sole leader). I've brought thee through the very depths of hell many times. But I was faithful.

Max Lucado came as a PROPHET to pronounce his blessing on Don Finto and his organization claiming to be THE apostle for all of the churches. ASK MAX.

Our Ear Witness: "Now, fast-forward to April 22, 1997. The scene: A Nashville Hotel banquet room. The purpose: To get Nashville ready of the 1997 JUBILEE. The chairman of the meeting: Rubel Shelly, preacher for the Woodmont Hills Church in Nashville. The speaker: MAX LUCADO, preacher for the Oak Hills Church in San Antonio. An honored guest: DON FINTO, preacher for the Belmont Church in Nashville.
....The speaker of the hour, Max Lucado, in his introduction, said, "Don Finto is my HERO." So, there you have Shelly, Lucado, and Finto-birds of a feather flocking together. These men-Shelly and Lucado-are either as much of a goose as Finto, or they are laughing in their sleeves. I cannot tell which. In either case, it is inexcusable."

Max blew it in 1997 and I got out of the doghouse after a decade of crying "wolf."

www.piney.com WinBapt.html

No one doubts that you baptize but EVERYONE knows that it is not remotely CHRISTIAN BAPTISM. It is the Baptist or Pagan Believer's Baptism as, in the words of Max, A "PLEDGE" to God that you will be GOOD! Like, Wow.

www.piney.com

I have updated the New VISION Max had. He claims to choose words VERY CAREFULLY. Therefore, it is more than interesting that the key words Max uses could not have been better chosen by Abaddon himself. Many of them are CONTROL words.

www.piney.com

Ken Sublett

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Truth

In the worship bulletin for the Oak Hills Church of Christ (Max Lucado, pulpit minister) on September 5, 1999, (when their guest speaker was Buckner Fanning, of the Trinity Baptist Church in San Antonio) the following was printed:
"After many months of careful study and consideration,
.....the elders UNANIMOUSLY concluded that there is no Biblical prohibition of the use of mechanical instruments in worship. The same background says that they agreed by CONSENSUS. This is not ethical: 10 vote for, 9 against. The 9 have sold their soul to become an elder and agree to violate their conscience and vote with the ten. That is how you get the word UNANIMOUSLY. I would say that there is considerable DIVISION among the elders and that which they agreed to came to PASS too fast being boosted along with a VISION

Sorry Tom but godly elders cannot be elders and come up with a conclusion which is OPPOSED by 100% of the Bible and documentation. Not even the Catholics presumed to get authority for NON-MASS instruments (their true worship) from the Bible. They were "common to all pagan cults. I have reviewed the elders report and one could ANTICIPATE that this was a slow injection of Poison which, by Lynn Anderson's warning, may take ten years to work.

www.piney.com

TOM now blames Charles Prince and Max Lucado praises Charles Prince:

Max Lucado: This was a major move and we came to it CAUTIOUSLY. I remember Charles Prince preaching on the topic of Christian unity and urging us to "not consult our fears."

You don't have to slither up to any BIBLICAL practice. In 2003 Max has a VISION to carry out the "prophetic statement of error" from the elders and STAFF.

Max Lucado: God calls us to do the same. Over the last few months, I've SENSED our Master URGING us to expand our dreams for San Antonio. He calls us to a fresh VISION: a vision of a city-impacting church.

NOW, TOM, HERE IS THE ORIGIN: NOT THE ELDERS.

...As the details of this VISION crystallized for me, I shared them with our ELDERS.
......They prayed, pondered, and tested the ideas and, ultimately saw them as God's will for Oak Hills.

So, it was left to MAX LUCADO to use psychological violence by claiming a vision to introduce what had been intended all along and had been cautiously or cunningly slipped in.

Max Lucado: "Recognizing the POWER of contemporary music, these new assemblies will be instrumental. A soft keyboard beneath an altar call, the sound of a cello during communion service...these tools enhance outreach. After fifteen years and several thousand sermons, I am convinced instrumentation reaches HEARTS.

As Rubel Shelly provided a "VENUE FOR ROCK AND ROLL" that "F" word, they all know that VOODOO reaches hearts: just like the MELODY arrows of Apollo reached real hearts.

THIS IS FULFILLMENT OF END TIMES PROPHECY. Melody or PSALLO as related to BOWS, ARROWS and harps (zithers, twanging bowstrings) the meaning is

Psallô [psaô = to grind to powder]

I. to touch SHARPLY, to PLUCK, PULL, TWITCH, Aesch.; toxou (arrows) neuran ps.
..to TWANG the bow-string, Eur.; BELOS ek KERAOS
--to send a shaft TWANGING from the BOW
..a carpenter's red line, which is twitched and then suddenly let go, so as to LEAVE a MARK

And only LATER to sing to a harp:

II. to play a stringed instrument with the FINGERS, NOT with the PLECTRON,

This is because PSALLO in the external sense means to TWANG the string with your fingers to SEND a "singing arrow" into the heart to KILL.

The expression: BELOS ek KERAOS ps.

belos [ballô, as Lat. jaculum from jacio] (Jesus ejected the Musical Minstrels like dung)

  1. a missile, esp. an ARROW, dart, bolt,
  2. like enchos, used of any WEAPON, as a SWORD, Ar.: an axe, Eur. (Paul=Lifeless instrument or Carnal WeaponS)

IF YOU CLAIM THE INSTRUMENT IS IN PSALLO OR MELODY THEN YOU CONFESS THAT YOU ARE THE END-TIME APOLLYONS WHO SHOOTS HIS REAL ARROWS WITH HIS FINGERS -- NEVER, NEVER WITH A PLECTRON.

Remember that Max Lucado after his VISION: "As the details of this VISION CHRYSTALLIZED for ME, I shared them with our elders.
....They prayed, pondered, and TESTED the ideas and, ultimately saw them as God's will for Oak Hills.

But they DID NOT, COULD NOT HAVE searched the Scriptures. If you can PRAY for new revelation then Jesus the Christ (full Deity) died in vain. Elders are commanded to "teach that which has been taught." I suspect that they know that Max has them by sensitive places: Max leaves and, Ooops! there goes Oak Hills which has been the TROUBLER in Zion for half a century: just in time for the end times.

Both Paul and Peter wrote their EYE WITNESS events and their encounter with Jesus Christ. They CLAIMED that the Word had been validated by the SUPERNATURAL SIGNS. Therefore, if you FOLLOW anything not recorded for our instruction you OPEN the sheep fold and allow the WOLVES or false prophets to get in. IT IS AN absolute MARK of a false prophet to go beyond what is written.

Under the penalty of violating the command to GIVE AN ANSWER for all of the sowing of Discord, either Charles Prince, the elders, or Max Lucado MUST give account by letting us read Charles vision which contradicts everything written from the Fall from heaven to the end-time Babylon harlot loaded up by STAFF INFECTION which infects a plague using craftsmen, singers, musicians, and instrumentalISTS.

The PsalmODIA, fluteISTS, harpISTS are the sorcerers in the book of Revelation. Without exception, the Greek world identifies them as PARASITES along with the rhetoricians who care less for the Word as it has been written.

I directed you to the site which DOES NOT LIE:

www.bible-infonet.org

Rusty said, "Uh, if you could first pray for me, because ... ah ... you know ... the TONGUES is his, not mine. And, uh, and when the "SPIRIT of PROPHECY" comes upon me I have to STEP BCK and let the Holy Spirit worketh [sic] in me. So if you could just EXTEND YOUR FAITH towards me and just ask God for his perfect word to RISE up in me (voice, We do).

And your doing it. Gotta see it from your perspective- not ours. And so the Lord says, I am doing a GOOD THING. The Lord said, I've had MY hand upon this CHURCH for many, many years. O. many, many years. I've brought thee through suffering. I've brought thee through persecution. I've brought thee through changes. I've brought thee through REORGANIZATION (with Don Finto as the sole leader). I've brought thee through the very depths of hell many times. But I was faithful.

Max Lucado came as a PROPHET to pronounce his blessing on Don Finto and his organization claiming to be THE apostle for all of the churches. ASK MAX.

Our Ear Witness: "Now, fast-forward to April 22, 1997. The scene: A Nashville Hotel banquet room. The purpose: To get Nashville ready of the 1997 JUBILEE. The chairman of the meeting: Rubel Shelly, preacher for the Woodmont Hills Church in Nashville. The speaker: MAX LUCADO, preacher for the Oak Hills Church in San Antonio. An honored guest: DON FINTO, preacher for the Belmont Church in Nashville.
....The speaker of the hour, Max Lucado, in his introduction, said, "Don Finto is my HERO." So, there you have Shelly, Lucado, and Finto-birds of a feather flocking together. These men-Shelly and Lucado-are either as much of a goose as Finto, or they are laughing in their sleeves. I cannot tell which. In either case, it is inexcusable."

Max blew it in 1997 and I got out of the doghouse after a decade of crying "wolf."

www.piney.com

No one doubts that you baptize but EVERYONE knows that it is not remotely CHRISTIAN BAPTISM. It is the Baptist or Pagan Believer's Baptism as, in the words of Max, A "PLEDGE" to God that you will be GOOD! Like, Wow.

www.piney.com

I have updated the New VISION Max had. He claims to choose words VERY CAREFULLY. Therefore, it is more than interesting that the key words Max uses could not have been better chosen by Abaddon himself. Many of them are CONTROL words.

www.piney.com

Ken Sublett

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Ken, I am not sure that this site is meant as a forum for lengthy discussion or not, but let me just make a few observations.

First, it is obvious to anyone who knows what is going on at Oak Hills that much of what you write is supposition, assumptions and just plain false.

Second, rather than challenging Charles Prince to a debate, why don't you take the time to call him, or call the church office and ask for a copy of the position paper which he prepared several years ago on the subject of instrumental music. I am sure that copies are still available. (210) 698-6868.

I hope that all who read this will take the time to read the links you have provided in your response. That will clear indication to all of the background from which you come. To equate Max's statement that "Oak Hills is on the verge" of great things to a "penis" (along with graphic pictures to back up your statement) is ..... well, I can't think of a good word here, other than sick. (Sorry, folks that is Ken's word, not mine.)

Ken, I do not understand why you did not answer my question about which congregation you attend. The only reason I can think for you not answering this question is that you, in fact, do not attend a congregation of the Lord's body. I am curious if this is a correct assumption?

Tom

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Tom

I am quoting published articles, creeds or VISIONS from Oak Hills or the sermons or books of Max. For those who may want to read the Ear Witness which makes me a liar, click on the following link and request the tape:

www.bible-infonet.org

If you can't bear the thought that they come from Oak Hills then maybe you should show some spiritual courage and begin to question those who are DISCORDING the whole brotherhood. You may want to define the OAK HILLS pagan baptism if it is the same as Max Lucado's baptism where neither "faith, repentance, confession or baptism" has anything to do with out salvation. His is a radical, Calvinistic Baptist pagan baptism which was INVENTED in1525 by Zwingli. Could you answer that, please.

I don't want a debate: just publish the FOUNDATION upon which you are building a MUSICAL WORSHIP when history knows that music as "religious" was STAFFED by a homosexual and emasculated priesthood. Why, is the simple question, do you pick as your LEGALISTIC PATTERNISM that which has always repulsed spiritual people. I won't debate the article, but like the WHITE PAPER from Farmer's Branch just quote the Bible to prove that every DOGMATIC justification to the "audience" is a falsehood.

Your statement is FALSE. What I said in response to Max's pretensions to HOSTING worship is that the word points directly to PARASITES who hosted the pagan religions. Worship is TOTALLY in the place of MY SPIRT as it gives heed to the Words of God. Jesus said it, I believe it, Jesus died for it, I accept it and intend to pay no PARASITES to "provide" an opportunity for me to worship. How terminally arrogant. For the truth seekers, here is what I said of the HOSTING using professional musicians:

Barbit-ôidos , on, singing to the barbiton, Luc.Lex.14.

With the same meaning:

kômôido-loicheô , play the PARASITE, peri tina Ar.V.1318

I then used a VISUAL AID (without the big screen) to show you what the GREEKS pictured thousands of times as the PARASITE BARBARIANS playing the BARBITON. They were always NAKED, always PERVERTED and PERVERTING.

The issue isn't ken: the answer is what does the Bible say. You may interpret the Bible by Max, but I only care what Jehovah- Saves says as full Deity with no SEPARATED spirit person to speak to Max. Are you STAFF INFECTION? that is relevant, self-serving and a conflict of interest which will keep you running with the bands which will go back into Sheol according to Revelation 18.

Max is being LED to repeat ancient pagan concepts of religion as control. I will just have to keep on showing you dirty pictures of what God would see if He even bothered to acknowledge worship which is not in the PLACE of the human spirit, one priest at a time in the Most Holy place in darkness and quiet: the closet Jesus ABSOLUTELY COMMANDED. The hosts and leaders were always rhetoricians, sOPHISts, singers, musicians and Craftsmen: pharisees, scribes, hypocrites: parasites all. Naked before a holy God.

Just ask the secretary to mail or post your CREDO about instrumental music and I won't debate: I will just quote Scripture to prove that it is 100% intentional lies--no literate person can be CONFUSED about this issue. For your information, Tom, the a cappella charismatics don't like me any better than the instrumental charismatics. That gives me great comfort.

Ken

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Redirecting the conversation

Tom, I don't mind lengthy discussions. Please point me to Ken's post where he uses the phallic imagery, and I'll delete it.

Ken, please tone down your language and focus your discussion or I'll do some serious deleting of posts. I must confess I found your posts wearisome, and I'm probably closer to your position that to Tom's. I don't know how Tom had the patience to read them.

Tom, I must say that your comment about Max not having much input on the music question surprises me, since the pdf on the site states that the position paper, as I remember it, is based upon, if not practically the text of, a sermon of Max's.

I was surprised to see this interchange, though not displeased, but might wish for a healthier discussion of the issues involved, especially on the part of those not supportive of Oak Hills's changes.

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Randall,

The specific link to which I was referring was the "Max Lucado - Creed" link which Ken inserted towards the end of his note. About 80% towards the bottom of that page (No. 10) is the reference to which I alluded. The specific picture is a bit above that but most of Ken's links contain pictures that would not be allowed in most books. (outside of the Red Light District of Amsterdam, anyway)

The study that I was referring to regarding instrumental music was the one that the Elders undertook in 1999. I believe that Max's remarks you referred to was his desire to see an instrumental service, at least in some fashion - that would have been relating to events of this summer.

I am not an apologist for Max. I was at Oak Hills before he became the minister. There are aspects of this this I do not agree with as well. My purpose was only to provide information where possible from someone who is there on a weekly basis and stop, or at least refute, some the totally nonsensical information that was coming from Ken. (i.e. Max speaking in tongues.)

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A question about Brazil

Randall, one of the missionaries that Oak Hills supports is Dennis Downing in Recife. Ken has also made quite disparaging remarks about Dennis and I was just curious about his standing among Brazilian missionaries. I know that Oak Hills has supported Dennis for several years and his reports have been very interesting on his work in Brazil. Just interested in feed back from other sources. Thanks for your help.

Tom

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Post with offensive link is gone

Tom and Ken, I have deleted Ken's post with the offensive link to his page containing the pics and remarks Tom mentioned. I'm probably less squemish about these things than most people, but I certainly wouldn't want my daughter clicking over to them. She probably wouldn't have waded through all that dense text in the first place, but in the interest of wholeness, I chose to delete it. If there are any other such remarks here or links to remarks/pics, they'll go the way of all the earth as well, and quickly at that.

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On your question about Brazil

Tom, The first time Dennis came to Brazil, in 1985, I believe it was, he stayed in my house. We developed a good friendship then which continues today. I've stayed in Dennis's house on two different occasions when I went to Recife to teach. Several years ago, Dennis and I collaborated on a couple of writing projects. So I know Dennis fairly well. Nobody has a heart as good and a life as godly as his. Nobody is as concerned for the kingdom of God as he. I have talked with Dennis about some of the things happening at Oak Hills and expect we'll talk further, since we have some different views about it. As far as his standing among the other missionaries, I assume it's good. (I don't know what Ken has written and don't really want to know.) Dennis went recently to another city to teach about prayer, by invitation of the mission team in that location. Personally, I would that every missionary had the integrity, thoughtfulness, and cultural sensitivity that he has. He's one of the people I most respect.

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Dennis Downing

Ask Tom to support his slander. The postmodern paradigm of the NEW CHURCH does not believe that it is lying if it advances their cause. With about 6,000 visits yesterday I have no time for children.

I wrote, and Tom Knows it,

"Dennis Downing misses the point that Paul DID NOT SAY: 'I have decided to PREACH only Jesus'." To KNOW only Jesus meant that Paul had to CRUCIFY himself and HIS opinions. This would force him to preach whatever Jesus had revealed." Period!!!

Isn't that horrifying? I then linked to his article at Heartlight

I have no knowledge that Dennis is a missionary anywhere and I think that you are enabling Tom's lies and his friends pile on. If I cannot Quote Dennis, good bad or ugly, the SHEPHERDING or DISCIPLING dilema is in full sway. I am astounded that people try to HIDE the exact picture of what the TEAM was trying to do to Jesus: that is Biblical and to hide it isn't nice.

Tom can supply the LINK where I make ONE quotation by Dennis simply because I found him on the internet teaching the common thene that Paul claimed to TEACH only Christ and Him crucified.

Ken, over and out

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Dennis Downing

Ken, what slander did I commit? Without taking the time to find the exact quote, you stated in one of your links that Oak Hills missionaries were splitting the church in Brazil. Dennis Downing is the only Oak Hills missionary in Brazil therefore, I made the assumption that you were referring to him. If you do not remember that statement and would like for me to take the time to do that, I will do so.

Randal, thanks for the information. You have verified what I have observed over the years about Dennis.

Tom

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Found the Quote

Ken, the quote that I was referring to was in your article entitled "Shepherding Max Lucado Oak Hills," in which you state (about halfway down the article):

"THE COUNTRY OF BRAZIL IS SPLITTING AS IT IS DRIVEN BY OAK HILLS MISSIONARIES!" (caps yours)

Again, Dennis Downing is the only missionary from Oak Hills in Brazil. I guess the ball is in your court Ken.

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Oak Hills and splits

Tom, I haven't read Ken's material, and I'll admit to not feeling much affinity with his writings. Here is an item, however, that may be feeding Ken's fire. The church in Natal has split; the missionary there, XYZ [edited out], according to what I read on one site, grew up, apparently, at Oak Hills. He, from what you say, is evidently not supported by Oak Hill, I can't really say. It does appear he's in the middle of the cause there, from what I pick up. Now, one case does not a conspiracy make. But it is disconcerting, still.

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Oak Hills and splits

Randal, I have never heard of XYZ. I do not think he is supported by Oak Hills, unless he has been added recently, nor am I aware of a missionary by that name who grew up at Oak Hills. I will check into that further. I am leaving on a business trip to Europe tomorrow for a week, so I will be out of touch for a bit. Probably will not find out any information until I return.

I have gone back and checked the Oak Hills website and I forgot about Bryan and Jannet Carruth being missionaries in Natal. I know Bryan and would be very surprised if he were involved in instigating any type of split. However, I would certainly be open to any input that you or anyone else in Brazil would have to offer.

Tom

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Natal

Tom, that was my mistake. It was Bryan C. I had in mind. I have erased the other name from both our posts, so as to avoid involving anyone else here inadvertantly ... Have a good trip. Randal

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Dennis Downing 1985-2003

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Natal

Randal, back from the trip, but a bit jet lagged. I will do some checking and see what I find out this week. I will talk with B's parents, they are friends of mine and see what is going on.

Tom

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Trip

Tom, I usually find it takes me a week to recuperate completely from a inter-continental trip. Hope your back to normal soon. And it's time for me to get a report out for Sept. Something happened to the month of October -- somebody shortened it.

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... Comment
doctrine, the Faith and the gospel

To all who seek His coming

I would like to offer for discussion what I see as a grave error which permeates the ultra conservative church of Christ. There is talk all through the web of “sound doctrine”, preserving “the faith”, keeping “the gospel” and warnings against false doctrine. I see scriptures taken out of context and applied in a very narrow application that does not speak the intent of the writer. I see huge bodies of writings taken from non scriptural sources in an attempt to shore up the positions. I see a disturbing thread though it all that reduces the gospel to a salvation by works based on holding to a list of traditions, non scriptural regulations and opinions which, if not held, relegate the person to hell or at least grave error.

I would like to bring up the following issues.
· What determines "sound doctrine", "the Faith" and the "Gospel".
· From scripture what constitutes false teachers, false Gospel and unsound doctrine.
· A discussion of the believer’s freedom.
· A discussion of the dangers of judging a servant of God.
· The danger of equating tradition and matters of opinion with the Gospel or doctrine and the dangers of the “law of silence.”
· A discussion of change in the church.
· A discussion of what the Bible says about instrumental music.
· Propose a solution.

What determines sound doctrine, the Faith and the Gospel?

What is the Gospel? Paul defines it in Romans 1. That is the Gospel. Not a list of rules and regulations and traditions.

“So, for my part, I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome. For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

And in Galatians 3 Paul says that the Gospel is now by faith and not by the law (our tutor).

”Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

Again the Gospel is justification by faith not by law.

Doctrine is discussed in Ephesians 4. Doctrine is stated as the "one body, one Spirit, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father". It is not a list of do’s and don’ts and traditions. He then talks of winds of doctrine, trickery, deceit as it applies to the one body, one Spirit, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father.

Ephesians 4
“Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift………….And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, or the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.”

Here Paul states that the unity of the spirit is manifest in the immutability of “the Faith” that is one Body, one Spirit, one Baptism, one Lord, one Faith, one God and Father. Then he lists some gifts and talents that are different according to the grace that God gives us. We reach maturity through our gifts and talents so that we can fend off “every wind of doctrine” that tries to nullify the Gospel. The manifestation of the gifts is not the “doctrine” but is as different as there are different people and different measures of God’s grace. So doctrine and “the Faith” are not lists of do’s and don’ts that we define fellowship upon.

Much of what is written in the Bible about sound doctrine and the Gospel can be found in passages in which someone is chastising another over unsound doctrine, or denying the Gospel of its power.

In Matthew 23
23"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others. "You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. "You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also. "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness.”

Here Jesus is chastising the Pharisees for concentrating on the minutiae and insignificant things and ignoring the more important provisions of the law (or to us the Gospel).

The gospel is further discussed in Galatians 1.

“I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!”

So Paul is talking warning against a different gospel, distorting the gospel or one contrary to that which Paul preached to them. Remember how Paul defined the gospel in Romans “it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

The gospel is salvation by faith. What was the different gospel in Galatians? He expands on this in chapter 3.

“But not even Titus, who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage. But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you. But from those who were of high reputation (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)--well, those who were of reputation contributed nothing to me. But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised (for He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles), and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. They only asked us to remember the poor--the very thing I also was eager to do.
Peter Opposed by Paul
“But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, "If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews? We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be! For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.
I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Here Paul gives one of the most eloquent discussions of what the Gospel boils down to. And he says that the Gospel is nullified when someone “compels” another Christian to adhere to a man made commandment, tradition, rule, or regulation. Anytime someone says if you don’t do this or if you do that and it is not a commandment expressly tied to the Gospel (i.e. "the faith") then the Gospel is nullified and Christ died needlessly. You are hanging heaven or hell upon whether you agree with a tradition (circumcision, a capella singing). That diminishes the Gospel to a salvation by works. Plain and simple. A list of traditions and opinions and judgements that the church of Christ has hung the test of fellowship includes, but is not limited to the following.

Opposition to the “community church movement”
Contemporary worship music
Clapping
Raising hands
Instrumental music
Any other interpretation of baptism than yours
Worship teams
Worship leader
Drama ministries
“Change agents”
Purpose driven church
Max Lucado
Rubel Shelley
Disdain for any church name other than C of C
“Holy Entertainment”
Christian colleges
Children’s worship
Doctrine, “The Faith” equated with disputable issues of conscience
Adding to the gospel
KJV the only Godly translation, all others of Satan
The association all of music with the devil and pagan ritual
Insistence that the Church of Christ is the only true church
Equating change to adding to “doctrine”
Doctrine equated to tradition
Misleading Greek exegesis
Disdain for the observance of Christmas
Public testimonials during the worship service

This website adds this long heavy list of laws and traditions to the simplicity of the Gospel. Paul in Romans 14 and 15 speaks about the believer’s freedom in disputable matters and warns sternly against judging. He talks about differences of opinion on disputable matters, in this case what you eat and the observance of holidays (Easter, Christmas). We don’t judge a servant of God for God is able to make him stand. The kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking (what we do) but is righteousness, peace and joy of the Holy Spirit. And look at the “root of Jesse” from which Jesus arises and the Gentiles are grafted onto. That speaks volumes to the continuity between the old and the new testaments. The same God was in charge from day one.

Romans 14
The Weak and the Strong
1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written: “ ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.’ ” 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.
19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.
22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
Romans 15
1We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. 2Each of us should please his neighbor for his good, to build him up. 3For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: “The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me.” 4For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
5May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, 6so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
7Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God. 8For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God's truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs 9so that the Gentiles may glorify God for his mercy, as it is written: “Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles;
I will sing hymns to your name.” 10Again, it says, “Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people.”11And again, “Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles,
and sing praises to him, all you peoples.” 12And again, Isaiah says, “The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations; the Gentiles will hope in him.”
13May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Look at another example of false teaching. Again false doctrines are departures from “the Faith.” They consist of binding restrictions and traditions on people as a test of faith. He then says “everything created” by God is good. “Everything created” is the Greek word defined in Strong’s Greek lexicon "ktizo 2936; an original formation (concretely), i.e. product (created thing):--creature". Here “ktizo” could mean creature or a created thing. The context talking about food and marriage suggests a created thing is the more appropriate translation. He is saying that everything that God created is good if it is received with thanks and is not contrary to the word of God. Again we must not take contrary to the word of God to mean everything not mentioned in the Bible because we then produce a list of do’s and don’ts as a test of fellowship and are back to a salvation of works.

In 1 Timothy Paul talks that false doctrine is, again, binding traditions, cultural mores, relationship restrictions as a binding test of faith. He then says that EVERYTHING CREATED BY GOD IS GOOD AND NOTHING IS TO BE REJECTED IF IT IS RECEIVED WITH GRATITUDE FOR IT IS SANCTIFIED BY MEANS OF THE WORD OF GOD AND PRAYER. Here he says God will not reject anything that he has created that we give back to him including but not limited to musical talent.

1 Timothy 4

1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude; for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

Again Paul teaches about our freedom in 1 Cor 10. He is giving a wide berth of freedom of opinion and freedom from judgment. Issues like giving a musical instrument talent to God cannot be called a sin. He says whatever we do, do it for the glory of God.

1 Corinthians 10
23“Everything is permissible”–but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible”–but not everything is constructive. 24Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others. 25Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26for, “The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it.”If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. 28But if anyone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake[d]– 29the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience? 30If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for? So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God– 33even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

What does the Bible say about change? Paul was a big believer in adaptability. He would do what ever he could to adapt the delivery of the Gospel to the audience at hand. Change is a good thing.

1 Corinthians 9
19Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

He gives us an example in which he commends the pagans for their spirituality and quotes from a pagan poem so that he might reach the lost.

Paul at Athens
Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was being provoked within him as he was observing the city full of idols. So he was reasoning in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Gentiles, and in the market place every day with those who happened to be present. And also some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers were conversing with him. Some were saying, "What would this idle babbler wish to say?" Others, "He seems to be a proclaimer of strange deities,"--because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection. And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, "May we know what this new teaching is which you are proclaiming? "For you are bringing some strange things to our ears; so we want to know what these things mean." (Now all the Athenians and the strangers visiting there used to spend their time in nothing other than telling or hearing something new.)
Sermon on Mars Hill
“So Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, "Men of Athens, I observe that you are very religious in all respects. For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, 'TO AN UNKNOWN GOD ' Therefore what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you. The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, 'For we also are His children.' Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man. Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."

On the issue of instrumental music, I think that the above scriptures clearly teach that the Gospel, or the Faith, or Sound Doctrine is not a complex list of traditions and matters of opinion. Lets look one more time then at Colossians 3. Psalm in Strong’s Greek dictionary “from yallw - psallo 5567; a set piece of music, i.e. a sacred ode (accompanied with the voice, harp or other instrument; a "psalm"); collectively, the book of the Psalms:--psalm. Compare wdh - oide 5603” A psalm is a type of song that has in it’s meaning in the Greek the accompaniment with music. Does it make sense that Paul would give this glorious treatise on how we should treat each other, then say that cultural and traditional issues are erased since all are equal and then suddenly say that it is a sin to use instruments of music and if you did you would be lost to hell? It isn’t there people.

“Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory. Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience, and in them you also once walked, when you were living in them. But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices, and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him-- a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all. So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity.
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful. Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God. Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.

The "law of silence" is one of the biggest heresies of the last century. It is so because for it to stand there is formulated a huge burdensome list of do's and don'ts that are based on tradition and personal preference and are bound on Christians as a test of fellowship heaven or hell. This law places things like instrumental music as a sin because it is another gospel or it is unsound doctrine. When Paul or even Jesus talks about false doctrine they are always talking about compelling people to comply with, or binding upon them, matters of tradition, cultural heritage or personal opinion and making them matters of "the Faith." Paul says that this reduces the Gospel to a salvation by works according to the law and nullifies the death of Christ. Paul says that the Gospel is simply that a righteousness came down from God as a free gift through the sacrificial death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Instrumental music, contemporary songs and the whole litany of things listed above have nothing to do with the Gospel, Doctrine or the Faith. When Paul speaks of spiritual gifts he says at least twice that the earth is the Lord's and everything in it and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving and does not conflict with the Word of God. And again doing something that is not in the bible and giving it to God is not in conflict with the Word of God.

So what is the solution? Do we make a big list of things that are out of our comfort zone and tradition that are a test of fellowship, which puts us back to a salvation by works? Or do we accept one another in love and agree on the fundamentals of “the Faith”, “Doctrine” and “the Gospel” and agree to disagree on the minutiae of our silly little traditions. The disciples once asked Jesus to stop a group that claimed to be followers of Christ and were performing miracles, but were not with the apostles. Jesus said “do not hinder them. If they are not against you they are for you.” I think we need to take a hard look at what we are doing and offer a hand of fellowship to those laboring in the fields beside us.

shaggydoc

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